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The money

Αν είσαι κι αν δεν είσαι του δήμαρχου παιδίν
If you are and if you're not mayor's child
του δήμαρχου παιδί, ω, ω
mayor's child, oh, oh
εγιώ να σε φιλήσω κι ας κάμω φυλακήν
i will kiss you even if I go to the jail

Τα ριάλια, ριάλια, ριάλια
The money, the money, the money
τα σελίνια μονά και διπλά
the schillings odd and double
τα μονόλιρα, πεντόλιρα και πού ’ντα
one pounds, five pounds and where they are
ο πεζεβέγγης που τα ’χει στη πούγγα, ω, ω
the pimp that has them in his wallet, oh, oh

Εσύ ’σαι ο καθρέφτης, το καθαρόν γιαλίν
You are the mirror, the clear glass
το καθαρόν γιαλίν, ω, ω
the clear glass, oh, oh
που φέγγει στην Ευρώπην και στην Ανατολήν
that shins in Europe and in Orient

Ίντα τραγού'ιν να σου πω, μάνα μου να σ’ αρέσει
What song to tell you in order you to like it
μάνα μου να σ’ αρέσει, ω, ω
in order you to like it, oh, oh
που έχεις αγγελικόν κορμί και δαχτυλίδιν μέση
that you have angelic body and waist like ring

Στην σκάλα που ξεβαίνεις, να ξέβαινα κι εγιώ
The stair that you go down, I wish I would go it down too
να ξέβαινα κι εγιώ, ω, ω
I wish I would go it down too, oh, oh
και εις κάθε σκαλοπάτιν να σε γλυκοφιλώ
and in every step to kiss you tenderly
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masturbation and the greek church


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#1 psili_amos

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 10:19 AM

what's the go?

was catching up with a friend of mine yesterday, and he was sharing his beliefs around masturbation being 'sinful' based on years of 'guidance' from his priest and his family...

i know it's suggested that 96% of men masturbate and the other 4% are lying, but he spoke so strongly against it i believe that he's serious...

surely this isn't something that's still being preached? and if so, what's the rationale???

Edited by psili_amos, 26 August 2007 - 10:22 AM.


#2 Thanasi

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 10:52 AM

You gotta be kidding me?! LOL!!

Those christians follow a passage in the Bible - besides the one about sin of Onan - that it is "better to marry than to burn [i.e. with lust]"

More comedy. So you got these young frustrated men that marry very young because they're "sinning against the Lord."

Psili, what kind of friends do you have that would talk about masturbation with you? I would never talk about that when out with a woman.

#3 Aggelos

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 01:08 PM

what's the go?

was catching up with a friend of mine yesterday, and he was sharing his beliefs around masturbation being 'sinful' based on years of 'guidance' from his priest and his family...

i know it's suggested that 96% of men masturbate and the other 4% are lying, but he spoke so strongly against it i believe that he's serious...

surely this isn't something that's still being preached? and if so, what's the rationale???


Yeah, strangely enough, its considered a sin.
Thanasi quoted the right part from the Bible.

I guess the whole idea is to keep the focus on getting married and keeping sex for procreation within marriage. Not wasting the seed, or something like that. Yeah i know it sounds conservative but thats the doctrine.
Just know that Muslims, Jews and Hindus also seem to have the same rule.
But its still a very personal thing...

#4 Thanasi

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 01:18 PM

The story of Onan is used in churches for their anti-masturbatory rhetoric. But they don't understand the context!

Those that are familiar with the story know that Onan didn't masturbate, but he "spilled his seed on the ground." Now, in those days, if a man died without giving children to his wife, then the brother was supposed to do the deed, and this was the job of Onan. But Onan fucked the woman and then just before he came, he pulled out and thus 'spilled his seed' on the ground. The "sin" is that the woman couldn't get pregnant and have children, according to their law.

Edited by Thanasi, 26 August 2007 - 01:19 PM.


#5 Thanasi

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 01:22 PM

Yeah, strangely enough, its considered a sin.
Thanasi quoted the right part from the Bible.

I guess the whole idea is to keep the focus on getting married and keeping sex for procreation within marriage. Not wasting the seed, or something like that. Yeah i know it sounds conservative but thats the doctrine.
Just know that Muslims, Jews and Hindus also seem to have the same rule.
But its still a very personal thing...

Seed cannot be wasted, as it's constantly being produced. The same cannot be said for a woman, as they have a limited number of eggs.

No wonder why religious people are so frustrated.
Posted Image

Edited by Thanasi, 26 August 2007 - 01:23 PM.


#6 Thanasi

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 01:24 PM

Posted Image

#7 Aggelos

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 09:21 PM

Posted Image


ax re Thanasi...Thanasi...to gaidouri na se klasei.

#8 psili_amos

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 11:56 AM

thanks guys...i wasn't aware of the beliefs behind it...

and thanasi, the conversation with my friend didn't have a, "how bout we talk about...." spin on it......nothing 'dodgy' wink

Edited by psili_amos, 27 August 2007 - 11:59 AM.


#9 HBK

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 04:15 PM

Who in their right mind actually listens to the Greek Church, actually any Church for that matter.

Trapped

#10 psili_amos

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 10:14 AM

obviously spirituality/faith is a personal thing and each to their own…

but i do have a problem with the following contradictions by members of the greek orthodox church:

professing a deep religious faith (and casting judgement on those who don’t) while simultaneously:

screwing other people over (be it lying, cheating, parking in disabled parking spaces)

carrying hatred in the heart

supporting animal cruelty (buying battery hen eggs, cosmetics/toiletries tested on animals)

becoming experts in tax evasion

#11 Aggelos

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 09:46 PM

obviously spirituality/faith is a personal thing and each to their own…

but i do have a problem with the following contradictions by members of the greek orthodox church:

professing a deep religious faith (and casting judgement on those who don’t) while simultaneously:

screwing other people over (be it lying, cheating, parking in disabled parking spaces)

carrying hatred in the heart

supporting animal cruelty (buying battery hen eggs, cosmetics/toiletries tested on animals)

becoming experts in tax evasion


congratulations. you just described 99% of all humanity...but strangely you focussed on the Orthodox.
good thing YOU exist to teach us morality and how not to be hypocritical and contradictory.
maybe you should build a shrine to yourself.
and anyway, if you knew ANYTHING about Orthodox Chiristianity you would not be so quick to be so judgmental yourself.
you ignorant hypocrit.
Do you want me to start about the hypocrisies of Western Christianity?
Or do you conveniently forget about those for some strange reason...hmmm...psili?

#12 kostipalama

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 11:37 PM

obviously spirituality/faith is a personal thing and each to their own…

but i do have a problem with the following contradictions by members of the greek orthodox church:

professing a deep religious faith (and casting judgement on those who don’t) while simultaneously:

carrying hatred in the heartscrewing other people over (be it lying, cheating, parking in disabled parking spaces)


I must admit to being guilty of the latter at times :blush: although I don't profess to have any profound faith.

I gotta say that I find it incongruous when I see a priest speak with hate about something when Christianity is a faith based on peace and love but then again they're only human. :)

Aggelo though, is right in that the majority of humanity is looking out for number one but I think the western church has had more opportunity to abuse it's power in the name of Christ than the Orthodox church has.

#13 psili_amos

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 09:30 AM

congratulations. you just described 99% of all humanity...but strangely you focussed on the Orthodox.
good thing YOU exist to teach us morality and how not to be hypocritical and contradictory.
maybe you should build a shrine to yourself.
and anyway, if you knew ANYTHING about Orthodox Chiristianity you would not be so quick to be so judgmental yourself.
you ignorant hypocrit.
Do you want me to start about the hypocrisies of Western Christianity?
Or do you conveniently forget about those for some strange reason...hmmm...psili?







ouch...did i hit a nerve????

which one is it? tax evasion? all of them?

i was speaking specifically about my experiences with members of the greek church....i didn't suggest for a minute that it's confined to orthodoxy...

can i also add that the points i chose are fairly straightforward…i think anyone would be hard-pressed to put forward a solid case for advocating lying, cheating, hating, animal cruelty or tax evasion, so i don’t see why a stance like this is taking some kind of higher moral ground of hypocrisy…if it disadvantages or mistreats the ‘creations’ of whatever higher being you believe in, how can that be ok?

it’s not hard to rock up to church every weekend…it’s not hard to preach…

what takes a bit of effort is living your life well…

Edited by psili_amos, 31 August 2007 - 10:13 AM.


#14 psili_amos

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 10:16 AM

I must admit to being guilty of the latter at times :blush: although I don't profess to have any profound faith.





hey at least you admit to it kosti wink

#15 kostipalama

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 02:04 PM

It's there but it's profundity has lessened with the passing of the years. :unsure:

#16 Aggelos

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 10:40 PM

ouch...did i hit a nerve????

which one is it? tax evasion? all of them?

i was speaking specifically about my experiences with members of the greek church....i didn't suggest for a minute that it's confined to orthodoxy...

can i also add that the points i chose are fairly straightforward…i think anyone would be hard-pressed to put forward a solid case for advocating lying, cheating, hating, animal cruelty or tax evasion, so i don’t see why a stance like this is taking some kind of higher moral ground of hypocrisy…if it disadvantages or mistreats the ‘creations’ of whatever higher being you believe in, how can that be ok?

it’s not hard to rock up to church every weekend…it’s not hard to preach…

what takes a bit of effort is living your life well…


Live your life "well"... in the moral sense psili? teach us your newfound moral code about how to live your life "well".

Sorry, but you chose to focus on the Orthodox. And now you're trying to back out.
Your shitty "experiences" are NOTHING compared to the better experiences you could otherwise have. If you look for shit you will find it.
No-one is perfect...even the Orthodox psili. maybe because they're just human.
Anyhow, in typical Australian style you made a 100% observation based on 1% knowledge. An obsevration made to serve some other dumb agenda.
A sign of IGNORANCE on your part.
And anyway why should YOU care?
And why take those people as your examples? WHy not check out the lives of saints? Or monks? or meet those who live an Orthodox life?
If you look for them you will find them, too.
Maybe that'll balance things out in your head...
if your prepared to make the "bit of effort" of course.

Edited by Aggelos, 31 August 2007 - 11:31 PM.


#17 psili_amos

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 02:08 PM

obviously spirituality/faith is a personal thing and each to their own…

but i do have a problem with the following contradictions by members of the greek orthodox church:

professing a deep religious faith (and casting judgement on those who don’t) while simultaneously:

screwing other people over (be it lying, cheating, parking in disabled parking spaces)

carrying hatred in the heart

supporting animal cruelty (buying battery hen eggs, cosmetics/toiletries tested on animals)

becoming experts in tax evasion




aggelo....why must it always be like this between us hey?

you are reading what you want to read...

can you firstly re-read my post above...

can you secondly take note that i was sharing particular personal experiences...

i have never, ever professed to supporting other religions...like i have told you, i've really only been to greek church although my dad isn't greek so i wasn't christianed orthodox...

i have never suggested that other religions have it over orthodoxy...

my post is based on what i have witnessed from members of the greek orthodox church....

i didn't say that ALL members are like that or that this behaviour is CONFINED to one religion...

can i make it clearer for you...members of the greek church (THAT I KNOW) have dragged me over the coals for meditating, for being vegetarian, for implementing community development principles in remote greek communities that encourage better health outcomes...

it's these SAME members of the greek orthodox church who tell me that my spirituality is somehow lacking, who are lying, cheating, openly racist and hateful, and generally screwing people over...

so i post this as something i have a problem with and you fly off the handle and insult me...

firstly, as a member of the greek orthodox church, if you are not lying, cheating and screwing people over, why would you have a problem with the post? i certainly didn't suggest it was you doing this stuff...

please take note that every convo between us commences with you insulting me...please read properly what i post, maybe take a few deep breaths, then feel free to engage...

#18 kostipalama

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 04:40 PM

i have never, ever professed to supporting other religions...like i have told you, i've really only been to greek church although my dad isn't greek so i wasn't christianed orthodox...

can i make it clearer for you...members of the greek church (THAT I KNOW) have dragged me over the coals for meditating, for being vegetarian, for implementing community development principles in remote greek communities that encourage better health outcomes...


You mean you're a veggo AND since you haven't been baptised, not really Greek?!?!?!!?!?!?! :blink:

Hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha!!! FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAK!!!! :P

Yes there will be many who will attempt to tell you how retarded you are for your lifestyle/beliefs and I used to listen to them as well until I went to Greece as a teenager and learned how to speak up for myself in no uncertain terms.

The words "how does get fucked sound to you?" can be deemed offensive, most especially by those who've been offensive to you in the first place and can't see past their own self-righteous indignation. These people are generally those that came from villages and don't know any better (like many of our parents, God bless them they did their very best for us!) or are parroting those very same people.

#19 Anastasia.

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 09:51 PM

I reckon the church has a point or reason behind masturbation, especially for blokes. It's not so much an issue for women; we don't have to worry about premature ejaculation.

Personally, I think that men who masturbate too much, to their own regular rhythm set themselves up for premature ejaculation, or prolonged ejaculation; they get too accustomed to their own stroke or fixated.

As for the seed crap?

Back then, centuries and centuries ago, it's not like they could count the number or millions of sperm that men produce on a daily basis. It's something that the church needs to revise. Every ejected 'load' contains hundreds of millions of spermatozoa, so it's no huge loss LOL.

#20 Thanasi

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 11:04 AM

Why should anyone be surprised at the "Greek" Orthodox church anymore?

They are an institution that once weilded considerable power over our community. They are on the decline, and any institution will actively resist dissidents that question its authority. It happened to me and I got thrown from my mother's home because of it.

Moreover, the Orthodox church is a bastardised jewish cult. And we already know that Judaism with its monotheistic belief system is strongly totalitarian.

The Greek people, with our culture and traditions, were there before the Orthodox Church, and we will be there afterwards.




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