[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

[TheGreekMan]

ÎœÎ, on 12 February 2010 - 01:08 PM, said:

TheGreekMan, on 12 February 2010 - 05:32 AM, said:

ÎœÎ, on 12 February 2010 - 01:17 AM, said:

TheGreekMan, on 11 February 2010 - 08:57 PM, said:

As a most passionate supporter of Greece I am utterly let down and over it.

I guess that's what separates the true patriots from the wannabes.

Well I am not standing up for corrupt and lazy principles.

In 1940, we said no and the whole nation mobilized. Where is this spirit during the economic crisis?

Instead we have people saying "it's not my fault so why should I pay" including church, unions, farmers etc and not only that but they want more money from a broke greek government that is already looking like the broke beggar of Europe.

No one's asking you to stand up for anything. Greece will live on, with or without you. But is this crisis really the fault of the common people? At the end of the day, all they want is a decent income to live on. Do your beloved financial institutions share no responsibility whatsoever? It's easy to blame everything on the poor, isn't it? Not everyone's as fortunate as you, you know.

Beloved? So you're gonna now keep repeating how I work at a FI... gee pays not to provide any personal shit to you.....so resorted to bank bashing now? Glorious.

It is the fault of the people who dare flout laws and not pay taxes and the governments most especially who cooked the books and lets this corruption fester.

Poor? My ass.. they sit in jobs for life working for the government demanding greater pay, retire with pensions or take to the streets which is partly why Greece is in the mess it is today.

Productivity has dropped but wages kept increasing. How sustainable is debt on the Greek generations of children to come going to be? and how fair is it?? Oh that's right.. forget raising the birthrate of greeks and keep nationalising immigrants.. the same ones who left Greece in population exchanges and otherwise. That's smart.

This post has been edited by TheGreekMan: 12 February 2010 - 06:03 PM

[TheGreekMan]

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

[TheGreekMan]

ÎœÎ, on 13 February 2010 - 02:26 AM, said:

TheGreekMan, on 12 February 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

ÎœÎ, on 12 February 2010 - 01:08 PM, said:

TheGreekMan, on 12 February 2010 - 05:32 AM, said:

ÎœÎ, on 12 February 2010 - 01:17 AM, said:

TheGreekMan, on 11 February 2010 - 08:57 PM, said:

As a most passionate supporter of Greece I am utterly let down and over it.

I guess that's what separates the true patriots from the wannabes.

Well I am not standing up for corrupt and lazy principles.

In 1940, we said no and the whole nation mobilized. Where is this spirit during the economic crisis?

Instead we have people saying "it's not my fault so why should I pay" including church, unions, farmers etc and not only that but they want more money from a broke greek government that is already looking like the broke beggar of Europe.

No one's asking you to stand up for anything. Greece will live on, with or without you. But is this crisis really the fault of the common people? At the end of the day, all they want is a decent income to live on. Do your beloved financial institutions share no responsibility whatsoever? It's easy to blame everything on the poor, isn't it? Not everyone's as fortunate as you, you know.

Beloved? So you're gonna now keep repeating how I work at a FI... gee pays not to provide any personal shit to you.....so resorted to bank bashing now? Glorious.

It is the fault of the people who dare flout laws and not pay taxes and the governments most especially who cooked the books and lets this corruption fester.

Poor? My ass.. they sit in jobs for life working for the government demanding greater pay, retire with pensions or take to the streets which is partly why Greece is in the mess it is today.

Productivity has dropped but wages kept increasing. How sustainable is debt on the Greek generations of children to come going to be? and how fair is it?? Oh that's right.. forget raising the birthrate of greeks and keep nationalising immigrants.. the same ones who left Greece in population exchanges and otherwise. That's smart.

I'd rather bash the banks than the ordinary folk, thanks. So it was fine for the banks to beg governments for huge cash bail-outs and get them, was it? Only to use the money for even bigger bonuses for the same executives who fucked the banks up to begin with. How fair is that? Productivity? Judging by the events of the past couple of years in the financial world, you obviously don't operate all that productively yourselves.

Well my employer did not get a cent.

and, I do blame the fat public servants who don't do shit and expect more pay and lifetime pensions and since you seem so obstinate... I will take a comical approach.

The solution is refuse to pay these lazy buggers if they dont work or the stathi psalti approach

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=gI6WiAoDqF0

or this happens
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=URs8SLAi8rw

Business is impaired so you have to have connections to get anything done
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=cFX7H31Ci7E

ÎœÎ, on 13 February 2010 - 02:31 AM, said:

So the individual villages have lost their court cases. That means it's now time for Greece itself, as a sovereign state, to take Germany to the International Court of Justice in The Hague. But successive Greek governments have been wary of rocking the boat. Maybe this is a golden opportunity to change that. After all, according to one of your articles, "a ruling in favour of the claims would have exposed Germany to reparation demands for billions of dollars".

But has it? will it ever? European High court rules that the global compensation treaty of 1960 which Greece signed settled it.. then why would not the ICJ say the same thing. As for that quote, all that states was if there was a ruling in favour that would be a case but there was a ruling against so it's settled. In other words it means nothing. So again, it is the stupid Greeks at fault who signed the Global Compensation treaty of 1960 for such a laughable amount and again this has nothing to do with the current economic crisis or Greek politicians cooking the books for so many years.

In conclusion,
Read all the other articles I posted and see that even certain Greeks themselves are saying the same thing. Knock down this Greek corrupt Soviet economy and stop blaming Germans and whatever else.

This post has been edited by TheGreekMan: 13 February 2010 - 06:21 AM

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

I never had to bribe anyone to get myself registered in Greece or be issued a passport. Did you?

You say Greece is a "corrupt Soviet economy", somewhat bizarrely given that Greece was never under Communist rule. But let's look at what the figures say, shall we?

"Tiny" Greece is ranked among the top 30 economies in the world, as well as being in the top 25 in terms of GNI per capita. For the record, Australia is 22^nd.

http://en.wikipedia....by_GDP_(nominal)
http://en.wikipedia....ies_by_GNI_(PPP)_per_capita

It is also classified as having a "very high" human development index, ranked 25^th in the world. The legendary "German taxpayer" is 22^nd.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

In other words, there is always another side to the story. Despite its debt problems, which by the way aren't unique by any stretch of the imagination, Greece isn't the basket case you make out.

[TheGreekMan]

I don't care about other countries other than say Australia... I care that Greece needs to fix these things and people like you need to stop living in some fantasy world... but since you insist.

Here you go

Much could be gained from further privatising an economy that is probably the last "Soviet-style" economy in the developed world. To kill the Greek leviathan, one has to starve its gargantuan voracity for intervention in the economy. The state not only runs hospitals, universities and churches but also casinos, lotteries, hotels, marinas, ski resorts, trade fairs, exposition centres, ports, airports, water, electricity and natural gas companies, oil refineries, postal services, transport, banks and insurance companies. The state's stake in listed companies on the Athens Stock Exchange is worth more than €9bn ($12.3bn). Real estate holdings in major state property-management companies are conservatively valued at more than €300bn and yet yield next to nothing.
http://www.ft.com/cm...144feab49a.html

Greece saw its score slide to 3.8 from 4.7, reflecting insufficient 'anti-corruption enforcement', lengthy delays in the judicial process and a string of corporate scandals that TI said pointed to "systemic weaknesses".
Corruption, country by country. The 2009 Transparency International index in full
http://www.guardian....y-international

Corruption in Greece is notoriously rife at all levels of government. State and local officials go unchecked, ministers elected to Parliament enjoy immunity from prosecution while in office, and a lower administrative court can overturn decisions rendered by the supreme court. There are countless loopholes and no accountability.

Stats show:

- 1 in 5 residents pay a bribe each year to a private or public official
- 26 percent of those surveyed said they were asked to pay a bribe
- 9 percent said they were asked by a hospital or bank to pay a bribe
- 1,313 euros, average bribe paid to a public sector official
- 1,554 euros, average bribe paid to a private sector official
- 613 million euros, total estimated bribes per year paid to private and public officials

According to Ta Nea:

- Rural police paid 100,000 euros in "confidential expenses"
- 77 million euros in secret funds from the Ministry of Public Order were spent by Sept 2007
- There is no accounting of these funds

In building/zoning:

- An estimated 35 million euros in bribes were paid in Attica alone to forestry officials
- An estimated 3.4 billion euros annually is paid solely to speed building approvals
- 800 euros, average bribe paid by each of 12 million people of Greece
- 800 euros x 12 million = 9,600,000,000 or 9.6 billion euros

Bribery in Greece is considered to be a misdemeanor and not a criminal offense, though Justice Minister Sotirios Hatzigakis “heralded” a new bill to change that in February 2008. However, this measure also says that only bribes over 73,000 euros would be punishable. Thus, paying and accepting bribes less than 73,000 euros is perfectly fine.

Ministers promising to root out corruption cannot realistically deliver. They face opposition not only from fellow ministers, but also special interest committees, a bevy of tax dodgers and rich and powerful voters who elected them in the first place.


Read more: http://livingingreec.../#ixzz0fP0SnmE8

This post has been edited by TheGreekMan: 13 February 2010 - 05:16 PM

[TheGreekMan]

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

Why do you "care" so much anyway? You don't even live there. No one's asking you to pay up.

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

Rather than a German bail-out, perhaps a German "final solution" would be more appropriate? I mean, how dare we annoy those lovely people?

[TZAKI]

i love the fact that the church has to disclose all there acquisitions !!

[Andrew19]

Well a French-Jewish-German MP stated that...
http://www.euractiv....-suffer-setback
Daniel Cohn-Bendit MEP, president of the European Greens/European Free Alliance group, speaking at the Strasbourg plenary today (9 February) claimed that, considering the deficit problems of Greece, the 4.3% GDP expenditure of the country in military matters should be reduced.

"Greece is the first European country in military expenditure as percentage of GDP. The reasons behind such a high spending can partly be reduced to the Cyprus issue and indirect military confrontation with Turkey. When considering deficit reduction the European Commission should do much more to solve the Cyprus problem," he said.

According to Bendit this would enormously help Greece to head towards fiscal discipline.




Guess what, the Greeks don't want to reduce military spending, lots of fakelakia there. No surprise that it failed to make it to the news in Greece. :punish:

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

Andrew19, on 15 February 2010 - 11:05 AM, said:

Well a French-Jewish-German MP stated that...
http://www.euractiv....-suffer-setback
Daniel Cohn-Bendit MEP, president of the European Greens/European Free Alliance group, speaking at the Strasbourg plenary today (9 February) claimed that, considering the deficit problems of Greece, the 4.3% GDP expenditure of the country in military matters should be reduced.

"Greece is the first European country in military expenditure as percentage of GDP. The reasons behind such a high spending can partly be reduced to the Cyprus issue and indirect military confrontation with Turkey. When considering deficit reduction the European Commission should do much more to solve the Cyprus problem," he said.

According to Bendit this would enormously help Greece to head towards fiscal discipline.




Guess what, the Greeks don't want to reduce military spending, lots of fakelakia there. No surprise that it failed to make it to the news in Greece. :punish:

Well it featured rather prominently on the news on ΕΡΤ, so I don't know where you got that impression from. As for Greece's military expenditures, does it really have any choice in that neighbourhood?

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

It's worth noting that the European Free Alliance also counts the "Macedonian" Rainbow Party among its members...

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

Andrew19, on 15 February 2010 - 11:05 AM, said:

Guess what, the Greeks don't want to reduce military spending, lots of fakelakia there. No surprise that it failed to make it to the news in Greece. :punish:

http://news.ert.gr/e...ton-kerdoskopon
:rolleyes:

[Andrew19]

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

Andrew19, on 16 February 2010 - 09:18 AM, said:

And you DO have a choice in the same neighborhood, however as you know our French and German friends prefer to lend us money in order to buy their weapons.

Try telling that to the Turkish generals, who have recently unveiled an unprecedented boost in military spending. :rolleyes: