[russel]

FYROM is a developing state.
there are no guarantees that it will even exist in 20 years time.

the Balkans are still shifting and the winners these days are the Albanians.

a modern developing state,with no problems with any other country.
entering silently into Europe,and NATO with no problems.
the infastructure is developing and the tourist industry developing as it has beaches and water.

Albania has the support from everyone including Turkey.


FYROM has on the other hand,enemies everywhere.
they created and perpetuated this nonsense with Greece.
they angered Greece by inviting Turkey,who can never pose any real substanial support for them.
they anger the Albanians by treating them as second class citizens in their own home.
they are at logger heads with Serbia.
they have made territorial demands on Bulgaria.

put it all together,and it will be the first country to be engulfed by Serbia and Albania..Serbia is waiting for the right moment,and will give up its territorial demands on Kosovo and break bread with the Albanians if it is allowed into FYROM.
Greece will do the usual thing and do nothing for FYROM,firstly because it hates them due to all this name nonsense,and secondly,because Greece usually does nothing..

the longer FYROM is kept out of E.U and NATO,the more vulnerable it becomes.
even if it ever wins the ''name'' issue over Greece,the fact it is kept out,weakens the country further and further.
Greece today is bankrupt,but even with this has the support of Europe and will pull through.
the fact Turkey has not been allowed to take over the whole of Greece,which it could within 24 hours,is a testament to Greece's membership of NATO.

so when i say,the Scopians/FYROMians/Makedonians/Pro Magnon men..whatever..are lower than reptiles,then thats what they are.
lower than dumb asses,worrying about a name,when their whole country's existence is called into question.
if Serbia manages to get into the E,U,and NATO before FYROM,then my friends,the ball game is over...

[ΜΑΝΙΑΤΗΣ]

matty, on 03 May 2010 - 04:32 AM, said:

I'll tell you what is reality Russell.

We are not FYROM.

I think you'll find that you are. Just ask the UN, EU, NATO, IOC, FIFA, UEFA, EBU or any other international organization of note. My personal favourite is the Council of Europe, which doesn't even acknowledge your existence outside quotation marks. In other words, don't you "Macedonia" us.

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Everyone is a former something or rather. Now northern Greece was the Salonica Valayet, or former Ottomans or Former Romans etc. You can go back as far as you like but people of Macedon lived and considered themselves separate from the Greeks.

Nonsense. There is no evidence to suggest that the Macedonians considered themselves to be anything but Greek. On the contrary, they stressed their Hellenic origins at every opportunity. Of course, there were Greek cities which opposed the Macedonians, such as Athens and Thebes. However, an even greater number of Greek states not only fought alongside them but shared many of their linguistic, cultural and political idiosyncrasies. Naturally, the question of their origins is completely irrelevant to that of yours. You have absolutely nothing to do with them. Your misappropriation of their name 66 years ago does not alter that fact one iota.

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Truth is Greeks only existed along the coasline of Macedonia pre 1912 and were an outright minority. What you see today are people with new Greek identities.

Another great Skopjan myth. No, the truth is that large swathes of Macedonia had not only a Greek ethnic majority but no significant Slavophone presence whatsoever. These include Emathia and Pieria, the very heart of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Other areas were dominated by Turks or had a very mixed population with no ethnic majority. Contrary to your revisionist propaganda, the Slavs were never a majority in "Aegean" Macedonia. Interestingly, the ethnographic maps of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries fail to note the existence of a "Macedonian" ethnicity at all. Why is that?

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The Macedonians did not ask for the name negotiations. This is a Greek imposed stupidity. I'm sure the politicians would stop the gravey train tomorrow if the Athenians would stop fighting for a name it doesn't own and cannot be confused with a Western, Central or Eastern Macedonian peripheries that have been around for 20 years.

You're quite right. We, the Macedonians, never asked for this dispute. But rather than being a "Greek imposed" stupidity, it is a stupidity imposed by decades of Slavic revisionism and irredentism. You really should have been more careful. Who did you think you were messing with?

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You shouldn't call us stupid in a hurry. Greece almost ballsed up the Olympic Games, conduct massive riots and unrest, incurr massive Debts which are now looking to be bailed out by the IMF and Europe.

This only in the last 6 years !!!

Don't forget the debt was brought about by dodgy accounting for years. So when you call us stupid I suggest you look in your own back yard first.

Please. Despite the naysayers, the Olympic Games in Athens were a resounding success. Isn't it Skopje's turn now to show how superior you are to us "Ethiopians"? wink


Even on the verge of bankruptcy, the Greek economy shits all over yours in every conceivable way. Greece's GDP per capita is seven times higher than Skopje's. Seven! No matter how severe, Greece's current economic troubles cannot mask the fact that your beloved revisionist republic is an impoverished Balkan backwater. In fact, given the extent of Greece's involvement in your FDI figures, they can only make things worse for you. Expect your already massive unemployment rate to deteriorate even further.

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I detect a lot of hatred for the Macedonians from the Republic by you. That is fine, I know what thats about, it stems from your parents. Those Greeks that are 70 odd make me laugh. They live in the past. But as I said if you look in the past then alot you people would lose the Greek identity too.

As opposed to your 70-year-olds, who are the epitome of progressive attitudes...


Yes, if you go back many thousands of years, you'll find that there was no Greek identity. In your case, however, one need go no further back than the twentieth century. That is the crucial difference between you and us.

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I don't hate someone just because of a stereotype but I'm all for giving as much as you get. So if you feel that way about us then the feeling is mutual.

I am also a very firm believer in reciprocity. You fully deserve everything you get, whether it be an embargo or a veto. You can hate us for defending our history and heritage, but you can't deter us. It is an exercise in futility.

[russel]

matty one more point.

if your leaders were true leaders,and werent concerned about hanging around at the Waldorf Austoria,all expenses paid..then this is what they would do.
if they truly cared about that little country..this is what they would do.

1.they would understand that survival of the country is based on membership of E.U and NATO.
2.they would cut the deal for ''north makedonia'' and get into these organisations with Greece's blessing
3.by being ''north makedonia''..they still can cause their language Macedonian,and basically achieve what they want..everybody will call them Macedonian.
by waiting another 5 years to achieve the final name Macedonia without the ''north' allows Serbia to move one notch higher than them.
Serbia and Albania in NATO and EU without FYROM,will mean the collapse of FYROM.

trust me on these points.

Greece will never do anything against you because Greece never does anything..!
but Greece,is being used now on people and countries that have their eyes on your country.

[russel]

and this alexander crap,has harmed your country everywhere.

noone believes you and again makes you guys look like monkey brains..a shift on this policy needs to occur.

by embracing your slavic past,you try to make sure the Serbians do not invade.
by making yourselves out to be a completely different race,you pave the way for Serbia to justify an invasion with Albania's assistance.

remember,if youre out of NATO,noone will help you.
and if Serbia and Albania are in NATO and line up against you..youre fucked.